Friday, May 5, 2017

Personality and Apologies/ Forgiveness, Getting Over the Debt Reconciliation of Religious "Forgiveness" and The Four Parts of Reconnecting (From Personality Hacker)

This blog post is heavily quoted from the Personality Hacker Podcast 'Apologies and Forgiveness' by Antonia Dodge and Joel Mark Witt. Unfortunately, I could not figure out how to embed this one so open this link in another window:

I am going to quote from the episode with my thoughts below. I HIGHLY recommend listening to the entire podcast as it is an excellent conversation with great depth and is a key tool to enhance all relationships. The dialogue between Joel and Antonia is also not captured in the snippets below, thus it is important to listen to the actual podcast. It is a great use of time while working on chores, yard work or driving.

I am skipping the introduction, as I usually do when I quote podcasts, as hopeful incentive for my readers to actually listen to the podcast. I also jump right into their quotes without context because again, I want you to LISTEN to the podcast. Yea, I am annoying like that:) Any places that there are dot dot dots =  sentences in original podcast that I did not take the time to write out- so maybe go back and listen:) I will highlight their quotes to distinguish from my personal thoughts/writing:

Establishing Trust/ Forgiveness as Reconnection and Not Debt Owed
16- 16:13 "If any part of the relationship is eroded through the behaviour, the apology is the first step in building the relationship back up. That is the third reason we apologize is to re establish that trust and relationship." 

16:38- 18:00 "Really it's not about resource or about about being in debt. It's about a broken connection point in a relationship, it's a broken communication, a broken intimacy and a broken relationship. What you are doing is not really getting out of debt but reconciling, and reconnecting a connection point with the other person...It's weird that we apologize and ask for forgiveness in the first place. What we should say is, "Hey I messed up here. This is the behaviour I did in which I thought was inappropriate, are we cool? Can we reconcile that re- connection point we have as humans? Are we back in simpatico?" ... Will you forgive me is an old, religious way of trying to do that, instead of just asking for the connection back it goes into this _ debt structure that you are now owed something by the person that wronged you and until they apologize and ask for forgiveness, you now have money in the bank that you hold against them. It's weird and I don't know why we do it as humans when it really is about the reconnection point."  

18:18- 19:30  "Or even if they are healthy but two people that shouldn't be in relationship with each other that 'I'll accept your acknowledgement but maybe we should not be in relationship with each other. And that's ok.' It doesn't necessarily make it wrong, we just may not be healthy for each other at the time. I think if you are at levels of health you can see it that way, but if you are NOT at a healthy place then everything is about a power grab. Because the less healthy you are, the more you are looking for leverage points in life to make up for the point that you are not healthy...ways to make yourself feel better. When you are unhealthy you know that you are...even if you have massive amounts of cognitive dissonance around it, there is something inside you that goes, "Maybe I am the person that is making me unhappy and not the rest of the world." And there is a desire to distract yourself from your own responsibility in life by not forgiving's more like a projection of your inability to forgive yourself for being unhealthy."

20:22 "One of the reasons we accept apologies is because we want to incentivize the other person to take responsibility for cavalier behaviour. We reward them for their humility and yea I would like to be in a relationship with the kind of people who take responsibility and acknowledge their wrongs or things they may have done that harmed me. Those are the people I want to surround myself with and to be in relationship with. Those people are constantly trying to do their best..."

From time 21:00 onward, Joel uses the most extreme example to talk about forgiveness, and in the end Antonia also points out that they do not want to negate the raw feelings of anyone who has gone through something similar and it is all hypothetical to ask the tough questions and not meaning to be callous. I STRONGLY recommend listening to the entire podcast to get context and hear resolution.

Systems Thinking
26:41- 28:41 "You have to have a pretty sophisticated concept of systems thinking in order to hold the concept that you just mentioned. Systems thinking being that there is no direct cause or effect. There are emergents or there are resulting experiences from an entire system running, with all these different nodes in the system and all these different components at the same time. And some of those nodes are bigger than others...There is a small node in there called 'you got in the car with them.' Another bigger node was 'another person got in the car and chose to get in the car because they were drunk'.... That is the emergent of another system running that at some point during their drinking they were sober enough to make decisions... like handing the keys to someone else...a node in that system. That there is a moment of choice for the responsibility ultimately lays on the biggest nodes..."

I love Systems Thinking. It changed my life forever. I started Systems Thinking when we stepped out of religion and I saw the Systems for what they were... then in therapy Systems Thinking came up again and in my Sociology courses. Finally Personality studies, Unschooling and educational mindsets, and Psych also taught me varied other Systems within the world...and these all made it easier in life to see the connections, the messy humanness, and the simple ways things just happen, and life was way easier to have perspective about. I was not as stressed anymore. I did not immediately feel sick over tragedies or other's problems. Of course they affected me and if I could help, I would help. But seeing all the nodes and the components changed EVERYTHING. It is why I will often say that perspective is everything...because it truly is.

28:55- 29:32"But let's go back to whether or not it is your job to forgive that person or if they should even be asking for forgiveness. Is there a debt there that is owed in some way? And the debt piece was the second piece of the three that we first mentioned. The first piece of the apology is that at first the apologizer recognizes their cavalier behaviour that resulted in the impact ....destroyed something..."

32 (THIS IS when that example basically is done) "...Ask those hard questions. It is a complicated topic...and I understand that is a very intense example for forgiveness possible because it is a very difficult position to be in... Let's move into a more day to day experience for a moment."

34:32- 35: "On these much more day to day examples, start to see that you are a node in these situations too...It's not meant to be thoroughly insensitive but to ask these very difficult questions of how systems work...not how we have been programmed to a knee jerk response..."

Policing Words/ Expression of Self/ Weaponizing Words
39: 46- 41:17 "We all hurt each other all the time and we all do basic mundane things all the time and it is our choice whether or not to get hurt by them. I know that concept of what we say does have power in the world and I recognize that and think it is accurate and true. It's kind of balancing that the things that we say are powerful and that we want to speak into the world the kind of reality we want to see. By the same token I also feel like people weaponize that understanding of words. As in, we have started to police words and we have started to remove other people's ability to express themselves in authentic ways because we don't like what their words say. We have gotten very policey about how people express themselves. There is a tension there between how offended we are gonna get because somebody said something we don't like and how we should be careful... The responsibility is on us to make sure we are representing ourselves in a way that is both authentic so part of the authenticity is to build the scale of kindness and compassion and that is the goal... "

This is a tricky part. As a personal example, I know that autistics are trying to "reclaim" the word Autism so that is not just an insult or dirty word. I am definitely on board with this obviously. But the fact is, that words can be used as weapons or healing at any given time. Shit can be the word for chicken refuse on a farm or it can be used to describe a person. One is accurate while the other is not. Words are just words until we use them as a vessel to damage or aid. Lately, there have been attempts to remove words from use, and while I disagree with this method, I do agree that we should watch how we use our words towards each other. The biggest example is the R word. For this example I am going to actually write it out....If someone uses a phrase like,"that was so retarded" I have to chose how I see what they are saying. Are they simply ingrained in nineties lingo and not meaning to direct harm to anyone and I am taking it too personally? (It is entirely another matter if they use the r word towards someone else.) I personally prefer not to use the word because of it's vast ableist history but I also have to remember that other people may not be educated in the ableist foundation it stems from. I also have had it slip out of habit and I understand that for myself, it was simply a linguistic mistake and not with an intent to harm on any level so I move on without guilt or self punishment. Most people are using words they grew up on without thought. Yes, we need to change the conversation but banning words isn't often the best way to find compassion. Conversation and education along with freedom and acceptance are. Using a word like 'fluffy' or something sweet in a sarcastic tone can be just as harmful as "bad" words used in a benign way. There are no "bad" words but there are mean, cruel ways of using them and there ARE better alternatives or reclaiming of words to pay attention to. Because compassion and kindness are the goal of using words in this way.

Religion and Debt Structure and Reconciliation in Forgiveness Methods
42:08- 43:38 "This idea of debt structure though, I think I am wired fundamentally, like that is my default setting, and I have had to work really hard not to feel like when I have done something that I don't like about myself that now I am indebted to the person that I "quote unquote" wronged or behaved badly toward... See I was wired from a young age, through my religious paradigm to see everything in social debt structures. My ultimate debt to God above me that I had to reconcile against and he holds the mortgage of my life basically and I have to pay him back from either repentance or through acceptance from him. I was raised to say that there was no way I could work to get that reconciliation but I have to get it freely from him and basically repent and humble myself in all these ways... and this trickled down to all my social reactions ... "

Oh wow, could I relate to this. For many years I would cry on Good Friday and be so thankful for the sin that I was unable to work off but was freely taken away. I interpreted this as a gift because that is what everyone around me said it was. But it was damaging...more on this below...

43:50- 44:33 "The way we show up each moment is evidence of where we are at at our growth. So in order to keep that tension and show up as my most ethical self, and when I have harmed those around me in a cavalier nature or even an intent to harm, in order to keep that balance and tension that keeps me most ethical than I will acknowledge it. I will go tell the person that my intent is behaviour change but I don't have a lot of debt structure in there. Because that is what I want to show up as an individual. When at the receiving end, I want to be the kind of person that freely forgives..."

This part was also important and again, I highly recommend listening to the FULL podcast and getting the dialogue between Antonia and Joel. It is a lot more fulfilling in context.

48:21- 51:50 "I'm constantly referencing my relationship with my parents because it is the biggie in my life. It is one of the things I really have to figure out, transcend and heal from. It really is a behemoth in my life. And if I look at my parents behaviour in my life, and really study the system- they are in a catch 22. They are in their seventies now and have been involved in a religion their entire lives, and I don't mean that just went to church on Sunday, but on a daily level they spent hours and hours dedicating their time and their minds to this religious paradigm, and their money and resources. They just gave so much to this thing. Because in part the religion gave them hope for my mom's dead mother (she died very young) ... and the religion was part of what soothed her during her grieving process and the death of my sister. So my mom is dealing with the death of her mom and the death of her daughter. Two major, MAJOR, pain points in a person's life. And her religion is what got her through with the belief and the hope that she will see her mother and daughter again. These are huge things and have given her comfort for literally decades. And the religion that she has handed so much over to demands when the son and daughter leave the religion and turns their back on it, according to their vernacular, that she not have a relationship with them anymore. Now she is stuck and in order to keep the hope that she has rested into for decades, and the comfort around the death of her mother and daughter, in order to maintain that ballast of comfort, she has to sever a relationship with her other living children. That is a horrible position to be in. What is she supposed to do at the age of 70? Re evaluate everything and go "oh I guess I was wrong the whole time" and re establish a relationship with her kids or is she supposed to be mad at her kids? and go, "Why are you doing this to me? I taught you this religion and this is your hope for everything and I taught you well and why are you turning your back and why are you being so rebellious? " At 70 she is supposed to reconcile this and go, "oh I guess I was wrong about the other stuff that I gave everything to and I'm going to re establish my relationship with my living kids." But I think, as far as I'm concerned, she chose a shitty religion to be a part of but it was the choice she made and it made sense to her at the time. So when I look at the whole system and the emergent behaviour that she refuses to have a relationship with me-  when I think about forgiving her for that and forgiving my father who also has his own story in there- I don't feel that there is any thing to forgive because I recognize the system so well and realize that they are painted into a corner. That my form of forgiveness is that there is nothing to forgive and there is nothing else they can be doing right now. I've noticed that whenever I have been "quote unquote" truly wronged and I go back and look at the whole system, most of the time when I get to a level of true, profound forgiveness - I realize there was nothing to forgive in the first place. There was nothing else that could have happened. It was the inevitable emergent. It was based on some choices and it was based on things that also were not choices."

THIS, above, is similar to my husband's story and in a way, my own. We have had to forgo many relationships because of this uneven playing field. Often it felt that apologies were leveraged power grabs. It wasn't about reconnection as much as it was about getting us to "see the light or error of our ways and repent." We understand them, because we have been there, but they have not stepped out of the faith the way we have, so thus they do not understand us. It really is a catch 22. We understand that it is all Systems Thinking and we also understand how ingrained it is...we barely got out of it in tact, and it took us years of searching, reading, becoming, and finding other people to speak into our lives, to finally find a few of our own personal answers and balance. We realize too that there is nothing to forgive in that sense because they technically just chose what works for them like we have chosen what works for us. See more below.

Forgiveness and INTENT
53:22 - 54 "Forgiveness comes with a true understanding of how things work. Not just a "I got hurt and something terrible happened to me and therefore it was the only thing that is important. " When you go back and review entire systems, most of the time you realize there really is nothing you could have done." 

At this part Joel and Antonia discuss intent and at what point does responsibility equal intent?

55:39 "We have a tendency to confuse acknowledging something to condoning it...Just because we understand something doesn't mean we are saying it is acceptable behaviour..."

58:26- 59:12
"Complete understanding to me is not the same as condoning by any stretch of the imagination. If people behave in truly destructible ways, just by understanding how they got there and recognizing there may not be any need to forgive in the way I was talking about, because you have full understanding of the system, does not mean the behaviours should be allowed to be continued. I mean I don't have a relationship with my parents in part because of how they treat me too. I understand. I don't think there is any reason to forgive them because I understand them but I don't particularly want to be around them. So I am not going to condone the behaviour even if I understand it... So I think that is the other piece of it. If you are in a situation where there is an apology required or perceived to be required either the apology comes to you or from you regardless just recognize that the behaviour itself does not get a free pass and that's why a piece of that is behaviour change."

Here is the part where boundaries come into play. A boundary can entail love and forgiveness but it does not necessarily mean the person gets full access into your life again. We don't have a relationship anymore with some of these people because of the way we were treated. Because even with an attempt, the reconnection aspect of the relationship was severed over and over in small and big ways. Because the acceptance of us at basic human levels was negated in the name of a future heaven. The expectation for us to be good people was equated only with being godly people in their definition of what that was. Behaviour change never happened. We were talked over and prayed over without permission. At events our needs and values were not held with respect, even when we asked for it, and were overridden with a preachy tone but to them that is love. We wish them well- sincerely. We hope for the best for them and feel happiness when we hear about their children finding joy. We understand but can not stay where we are not truly accepted. We also know that if they were in our home, they would feel uncomfortable with all of our books, beliefs and rules if we got down to a deeper level- it just would not work. However, with those we do still have a relationship with, we also make room for differences and we have seen and done some behaviour change as effort. They know where we stand but an example would be that we make room for  them to quietly pray at their meal even though we do not pray over ours. We will also, at their homes, wait respectfully while they pray because that is simply respecting autonomy. With the relationships that were sustained, there was a reconnection of both parties for behaviour change, in a way BOTH could be understood and respected.

Apology And Personality Types- The Expectations of Each Type
59:55 - 1:05 "Several INTJs and ENTJs were expressing frustration about people who come to them and apologize and it is now this social expression they need to figure out. INTJ's said," you don't need to apologize to me but just start doing the right thing - just change your behavior!" No, it wasn't that they didn't want to be apologized to but they were frustrated that the person made it about their emotional experience. "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings." While they felt the apology was appropriate- they hated that the person brought it to an emotional place because they were like,"My feelings aren't hurt - just change your behaviour." Now it was like putting an emotional burden on the person to now reconcile emotion or get into emotional messiness but it's like, "It's not about emotion just say your sorry, change the behaviour and move on."

"I've noticed with different personality types we want apologies done a certain way because we don't want them to be awkward...when it is not awkward in the least but something that needs to happen to establish the relationship. I think you can transcend that. There is a reason why apologizing is weird and when you have done a lot of work around self forgiveness, as in apologizing to yourself and recognizing your own limits you recognize that its just has to happen it doesn't have to be awkward..."

"However, I have noticed that certain personality types want to be apologized in certain ways. Because they don't want the apology to throw them into a situation that makes them feel like they are being required to manage some one's emotions. (THAT is for thinkers.)  But for feelers it's different....
Personalities in general do not want to be thrown into something that takes them out of their skill set. So like an NTJ  for example, may hate an apology that goes, "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings." Because that apology pulls them out of their thinking and intuitive process and pulls them into that feeling space which is their tertiary process and now they are like, "Ok great. Thanks for apologizing and putting me in a place where I feel like emotions have to be managed...just go change the behavior and we are good- just evidence that and we are gonna be fine." All personality types do that... when we are taken out of our skill set... Us feelers just want you thinkers to apologize really- just joking... but seriously there are feelers that get frustrated that thinkers assume everything... I think feelers really get this at a fundamental level. I think there is a thinker/ feeler split here. I think feelers do transact in the way of emotional reconciliation...There is a lot of emotional reconciliations. The connection point we were talking about before- Feelers really do get this at a fundamental level- there are levels of it and it's happening all the time. 
There is the high level apology I need to ask forgiveness / debt structure type apology but I think that a lot of little apologies that happen for feelers, especially FJs because they want to be in connection and harmony all the time so they are always looking to align the social connections all the time. It's not really a serious (apology) but it's not disingenuous but it's not high level "It's gonna be really bad if we don't (apologize)" ... It's a low level connections apology trying to stay in simpatico, trying to stay in harmony all the time. It's the ethos surround that...especially for extroverted feelers."

I am an FJ so thus I prefer to be in harmony most of the time. Boundaries practically kill me, which is why I talk about them, and pin them on my Pinterest board, ALL. THE. TIME. Often I need to be reminded that health also entails a strong sense of self love. Distance can mean health. Peace can come with less people but with the people I love, I do wish to stay in simpatico, and as an INFJ I will be unable to stay in a close relationship with anyone where there is a fair amount of tension...even if it is healthy- my personality is not able to tolerate high levels of stressful dialogue. One of my relatives is an ENTP male who loves to debate for debating sake...he also does not have much self awareness, thus my personality can only handle so much, even if I love him. I can not be in a room for long if it's all about debate and there is little focus on harmony and other's feelings. My best friend is an INTJ. She prefers the focus to be less on feelings and more on change. This appeals to the growth side of my persona. It also appeals to the 'T' ish ways INFJ's can sometimes come across...We value harmony but we will often balance out a room. Too much emotion and we will become less, not enough emotion and we will bring the emotion. Thus we work well together because she has learned to allow me to talk a bit more about my feelings and I have learned to talk less about them in a re-connection attempt geared towards her and more about what I am going to do in the future.

1:05:33- 1:05:54 "...Keep a balance between the subject and the object. If you are apologizing all the time you are not making it enough about yourself. You are important too. Your boundaries probably need to be worked on. Your subjective experience is not always beholden to others experience. You get to show up too. I think I was thinking about the contrast where the thinker maybe doesn't want the subject to apologize and bring all the emotional stuff in because it pulls them out of their sandbox. I can see a feeler not liking a kind of apology or a situation where the thinker says, "I did this wrong and I'm sorry and I will do better next time" and they end the conversation... They want to see an expression of remorse and an emotional plea to re engage that relationship...We are all looking for a different apology..."

1:06:57 "Most of the time it is not based on intent but sloppy thinking. Not thinking the thought through to it's conclusion and not having a clear picture of what was going on...
keep the relationship going to enter the dialogue or space where we are talking about our feelings..."

After this point, Antonia and Joel break down that most often TP's often prefer the statement, "I wasn't thinking- I'll think better next time."
TJ's often prefer, "I'll make it work better next time... I will do behaviour change to make sure the whole system is different next time."
For FP 's it is "the intent behind it all. That I'll recalibrate my intent towards you."
FJ's it's about maintaining the relationship. That "I recognize that when I do something to you I interrupt our simpatico."

I feel this is fairly accurate with the different types in my world and I have learned in general, if I care for them, in conflict to approach them in communication in these specific ways. How I wish I would have known this years ago. It would have been nice to avoid all the pain I could have avoided with the people I cared about. And with the people I did not care about but still wanted to have some form of discussion with, it would have been way more effective to have these basic understandings of persona. It's not possible to be friends with everyone or even at peace all the time. There is a time for temper and sometimes we learn the most from events that came from our enemies. I accept these forms too but I wish that everyone could have a basic understanding of personalities because it opens up the world to a lot more understanding and compassion.

1:08:34 "It is important to recognize that we, as personality types, give and receive apology and reconciliation in a way we want it done to us. As an ENFP if I feel like I had bad intent I am very likely to apologize about that but if someone says I did the wrong action but I know I didn't have ill intent I am less likely to be concerned..."

My husband is an ENFP and he is all about intent. If someone apologizes to him or says they want a relationship but then makes no attempt to reconcile on a basic level, he views it as a lie. He only apologizes if he realizes he had bad intent towards someone, but otherwise he isn't too concerned because he is all about authenticity. He wants to KNOW the intent behind a reconnection and see follow through that matches the words being said. If it is not there, he does not feel there is anything to reconnect with, and he moves onward to people who can connect with him on a level he can respect and understand. This is for close relations of course and he applies a lesser level to lesser relationships. It truly is based on context.

Acknowledgement/ Systems Thinking
1:09:50 - 1:10:37 "Acknowledging what you have done, taking responsibility for it... They are a node in that system, there is really nothing you can do to control them, all you can every do is influence in them. If you did something that caused harm, you have to recognize the node in the system that you are and even if you change your self as that the node, the emergent will change...even if the other person themselves have a responsibility in that way, it is not your job to point that out, especially if you are taking responsibility for your part."

The rest of the podcast focuses on all four parts of an apology. I HIGHLY recommend the listen. It also focuses on receiving and calling it good, or re assessing the status of a relationship in a peaceful way. It's important that you are YOU, in an authentic honest way moving towards either re- establishing trust or perhaps accepting the apology but realizing that maybe you need to spend some time apart. Joel and Antonia also speak about the fact that you don't know what the other person will do on their end. "They could refuse to reconcile with you. Maybe they will reconnect the relationship or they might really relish in your ego hit. It can go either way but the work on your end, and it takes skills to be able to take whatever does come back to you when you humble and become the best version of yourself", is worth the time.

I have taken this form of reconnection (formerly known as forgiveness and apology) since I have understood personalities years ago. I pretty much forced all friends, loved ones, and people I could not figure out to take the test or I accurately guessed their personality based on my intuitive observational skills. Then, when it came to conflict, I studied their way of conversing and tried my best to speak in the language they understood when it mattered most. It's truly about soul dialogues. Personality is the key to the inner 'soul words' needed for understanding and peace. Most of my relationships are peaceful and in harmony. They have their slight moments of conflicts but most are resolved quite fast due to the quick understanding both parties have built. With my christian friends I use christian lingo a bit more, but I am also not untrue to whom I am...I just know they respond better and understand me more when I speak within their use of words. Which is why it is a relief to have a few safe people who understand me even when I do not do this, because it is an effort. In the end, I find I have to walk the tension of being true to me, but honouring the truths of others. It's always a line. It's different in each circumstance. Each context demands a different pattern of thinking. Yet, this attention often will equal a greater amount of love and reconnection...and when it does is ok to walk on a different path.

A post about INFJ Boundaries:

Song Choice- The Chain - Fleetwood Mac


Anonymous said...

Your blog is currently included on our Actually Autistic Blogs List ( Please personalize your blog’s description by selecting "About the list/How do you want your blog listed?" from the top menu on that site.
Thank you.
Judy (An Autism Observer)

Kmarie said...

Hello Judy;
Thanks for adding me to that comprehensive list. I appreciate the thought and can't wait to go explore more blogs by actual autistics... it's an important list in that regard and i am always in the look out for more current blogs to read. I hope I submitted my description properly;) thank you for taking the time.

Kmarie said...

Also Judy I wrote a comment on your list... I am truly sorry for all the flack you recieved from fellow autistics...while I do believe there is some merit in the essence of what they were saying and of course, we are not always socially appropriate, I disliked how there was not consideration that you are also autistic and were doing things out of pure intent even if some of it was maybe not presented in a way in which people felt safe...I hope you can maybe consider my suggestion to simply list the blogs alphabetically with no descriptions and with wiping all the comments for a fresh start...this way it protects your boundaries but still accomplishes your goals but it also will make others feel safer and a less controversial list...I dont know if you will have time to check back here but 900 blogs is a lot of work. Thank you for putting in effort to what mattered in your heart to do...that is a very amazing feat. I am sorry for the flack and while I do agree that perhaps the descriptions and safety of the list could be addressed slightly different- I probably would have done the same as you- got myself in a heap of contraversery while trying to do a good's the story of an aspie life at times...but I think it is more hurtful when people of "your tribe" who are supposed to get that you have these moments, come down harshly on you- the rest of the world does that enough. I am truly sorry, as a fellow autistic, I have been any other human category - there are truly compassionate kind people and there are damaged, threatening or unsafe people and thats ok...but try to make it work for you too and honour yourself while also considering safety.

S said...

I also seek harmony and peace in relationships. About forgiveness though I have a very different view. I do not think that a human should ask for or give forgiveness. We are all flawed to some extent and that makes us human after all. Forgiveness puts one person in a superior position and the other in an inferior position ( the I am right/you are wrong position ) so I do not really give that much importance on forgiveness although I understand how forgiveness can release us from pain/guilt etc.etc. and create harmony sometimes. More than apology and forgiveness, I would like to emphasize on acceptance of flaws and letting go of the past but not to build a beautiful future but just letting go because two people can be very different and there is no point of holding on. But Yes of course I have said "sorry" sometimes in the past if I felt bad that I did wrong to someone, but more than that, I prefer to keep silent, accept my faults and the faults of others and just go on. Although I have strong emotions inside, and the sense of what is right and what is wrong, and I may break off a relationship from my side due to strong emotions or due to differences in values, I do not ever want anyone to ask me forgiveness. Hope I am making sense of what I am saying.

Kmarie said...

S: I agree- its ingrained into my vocabulary from my christian roots- which isnt horrid but I am trying to re word it to a re- connective place as that has always been my goal. I agree with you and your stance is similar to mine...

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your comment, Kmarie. (I responded on my blog but I'll repeat it here.)

I did wipe out all previous blog descriptions and started fresh. All current blog descriptions are either specifically requested by the bloggers or else follow the rules specified on the Rules governing blog descriptions page (“About the list/How the list is organized/Rules governing blog descriptions” from the top menu).

I have created a separate page in which all blogs are listed alphabetically.

Kmarie said...

anautismobvserver: that was a lot of work! Thank you for your time and for your consideration to make the list and give so much thought to it:) It's a very thorough list!:)